2,000 Greater & Lesser Mysteries

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Path: lassie!voder!apple!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Chuck Harder interview of George Knapp -LAZAR Keywords: Robert Lazar -UFO - Area51 Message-ID: <1991Jul4.020919.15517@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:09:19 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 631 Xref: lassie alt.conspiracy:5373 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following file(s) appeared on the Paranet UFO network in the late 1989 to 1990 time period. The following files are on Robert Lazar and are copyrighted by Paranet to insure their integrity. I have not gotten express permission to re-publish them here; however it's my *intent* to make them available for their informational content only. --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the Chuck Harder radio interview "For The People" of George Knapp, regarding Robert Lazar. --------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE OF UPLOAD: December 23, 1989 ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: ParaNet Information Service CONTRIBUTED BY: Chuck Harder/Special Correspondent to ParaNet ======================================================== (C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author. ======================================================== INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE KNAPP OF KLAS-TV (LAS VEGAS, NEVADA) ON NOVEMBER 17, 1989. INTERVIEWED BY CHUCK HARDER, HOST AND MODERATOR OF 'FOR THE PEOPLE' OF THE SUN RADIO NETWORK. CHUCK HARDER My guest has (now) called in and I'm going to run down who he is and where he's from for a number of reasons, some of them for his own protection. George, are you there... GEORGE KNAPP Hello Chuck. CHUCK HARDER Please tell us, you are George Knapp, right... GEORGE KNAPP That's right. CHUCK HARDER George, what do you do for a living? GEORGE KNAPP I'm a journalist with KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, the CBS affiliate here. CHUCK HARDER So you are a TV newsman... GEORGE KNAPP Right. CHUCK HARDER And you work for Channel 8, KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada... GEORGE KNAPP Right. CHUCK HARDER I understand that you have come upon some very interesting information and you've done some special reports, could you tell us about it...? GEORGE KNAPP Well we just finished a nine-part series -- what may be the longest series that's ever been done on this subject dealing with UFOs. Our research actually started about two and a half years ago, a fellow named John Lear, the son of the guy who invented the Lear Jet brought some of this information to our attention. In May of this year, Mr. Lear introduced us to a fellow who claims to have worked at a secret base designated S-4...on a top-secret Nevada test site...the fellow said that he worked on flying saucers, that the technology was not from Earth, and we interviewed him live in silhouette in May, the response was incredible...we got response from Japan, parts of that interview aired on radio in Europe, and six different European countries...so we decided with this much interest we might want to take a look at the subject in more depth. We started doing that and the first thing we found out is that really UFOs have not been given a fair shake by science, by government, by religion and especially by journalism. Millions of people have seen UFOs, millions more believe...I think the latest Gallup poll shows about 70 percent of college-educated Americans believe that there's something to it, but because of the tabloid aspects...'The Girl Who Gives Birth to 52 UFO Babies' -- kind of things in the National Enquirer, people have shied away from it...Serious people have shied away. Scientists, although they might be interested in searching the universe for radio signals really don't want to look in their own back yard -- they can't get grants...people would laugh at them. Journalism - - the coverage is generally condescending and quirky, especially by the networks, as in the coverage of this UFO that supposedly landed in the USSR, people making fun of it...so, we figured out that millions of people want to know as Roy Neary, the guy in the 'Close Encounters' movie said, 'What's going on?' So we started investigating it. The focal point of the story being this fellow who said he worked at S-4. We broke his identity last Friday. His name is Bob Lazar, he is a former scientist who worked at Los Alamos National Labs, he is a physicist...we did a lot of checking on him and found interestingly enough that his life was disappearing around him. In other words we called Los Alamos Labs and they said they never heard of him. We called MIT where he says he went to school and they had never heard of him. We called for his Birth records and they had disappeared...as if someone was trying to make him a non-person. We did however confirm some of the information that he had given us...we found newspaper articles from Los Alamos indicating that he had indeed worked there...we found an old telephone book from the lab with his name in it, which gave him a certain amount of credibility in our eyes. The story he tells is an incredible one. He was hired to work at this area called S-4 on the test site, he was flown up to a place called Groom Lake -- taken by bus with no windows to S-4...the base is built almost to look like its part of the desert with sand covered hanger doors, he goes inside and he starts reading these briefing papers dealing with UFOs! Pictures of UFOs on the walls, pictures of aliens, autopsy reports on alien bodies...things of this nature -- he's pretty amazed. Then he sees the discs. He says there are nine of the discs up there, they are powered by an anti-matter reactor which produces its own gravitational field...technology that does not exist on this planet, and the interesting thing...he thought for a while that perhaps it was just an advanced secret scientific project that our government is pursuing until he looked inside one of the discs and noticed the small furniture...all the chairs were built like for children...and then things started coming together for him. Are you with me Chuck? CHUCK HARDER I'm listening. GEORGE KNAPP Er, I'm not sure how much detail you want me to go in on... CHUCK HARDER Oh I think you ought to keep going. GEORGE KNAPP Well, this fellow was up there for only a few months. And it was a rough place for him to work...the security was so hard and he was being harassed at home, his phones being tapped...plus he's on to what he thinks are the secrets of the universe...he starts to tell other people about it, confide with close friends. CHUCK HARDER Ummmmmm..... GEORGE KNAPP He had the date of a couple of tests and on two consecutive weekends he took people up into the desert outside of the boundaries of area S-4, and they video taped the saucers...what looks like a saucer coming over the mountains! CHUCK HARDER Wow... GEORGE KNAPP We showed that video as well... CHUCK HARDER Uh-huh.... GEORGE KNAPP Five different people that we interviewed that had gone up there confirmed the same story...we also had confirmation of other bits of his story from other people, a former security guard who worked up there...who said he had seen the saucers, a former technician... CHUCK HARDER By the way, excuse me, I have some letters from some people postmarked from that area, one inside of a base, who tells me what you're saying is true. Keep going. GEORGE KNAPP Ah, we also found a Nellis Airman who had been on radar duty at Nellis airbase which is here just south of the area that this fellow is talking about...he reported numerous times seeing... CHUCK HARDER George, excuse me...let me do the half hour news break, I want you to tell your story, I want America to hear it...please stand by. >>>>At this point the SUN RADIO NETWORK runs the half hour news headlines and sports audio package from UPI<<<< (After news the guest is re-introduced for listeners who may have just tuned in...) CHUCK HARDER How many reports did you do, George? GEORGE KNAPP We did nine total in this series. CHUCK HARDER Ok, now at the time we went to news on the half hour you told me that a scientist named Bob Lazar... GEORGE KNAPP Right... CHUCK HARDER Ok, came to you and came to the public and apparently was concerned for his safety because he wanted to tell America or get news out that - yes, the Federal Government has nine saucers, and yes they are near...it's near Nellis, is it not? GEORGE KNAPP Yes. CHUCK HARDER Cause I have letters from people who are at Nellis. Some of which don't want to give their name, some of which gave their name, I have the postmarks. Tell us now if you would, start the story from the fact that the gentleman has revealed that there are nine of these things. We're listening and so is America. GEORGE KNAPP Well, we wanted to try to confirm as much of his story as possible from other sources of course, so we started looking for other people who might have knowledge of what's going on up there...as I mentioned, I found a former security guard who said that he had seen the saucers up there, I found a former technician who said that he had walked into a room inadvertently and saw one under a tarp, we found a Nellis airman who had worked in radar and said that basically he and his fellow airman has seen these things flying over the Groom Mountains at speeds up to 7,000 miles per hour on radar...these things would stop on a dime, so the guy knew that this is not your average airplane that's doing this. We also interviewed the other people who went with Lazar up on two consecutive weeks, they test them on Wednesdays for some reason, and videotaped the tests, saw these things flying over the mountains and confirmed his story as well. We put these questions to the Navy, who Lazar says he worked for up there -- we made Freedom of Information Act requests for information about the various specific programs he mentioned, of course the Navy denied having any information on the programs. Of course in those requests we also asked for other information about UFOs, stuff the Navy has already released and they denied having that information as well -- so I don't put a lot of faith in the FOIA requests. CHUCK HARDER In other words, what you're saying is that your organization which is KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, plus many other UFO research groups have uncovered many UFO documents that the government says, 'Yeah, we got them and yeah it's true'...but then when you ask them again they say, 'No, we don't have them!' GEORGE KNAPP Exactly...that's exactly correct! CHUCK HARDER I understand from MUFON and many other groups that there are somewhere from four to seven thousand documents that prove that...yes these things exist, copies of the documents are in private hands, then you go and ask the government and they say, 'Well, er, no we don't remember...' GEORGE KNAPP The government says that they have done these studies that say that UFOs are no threat to national security, they're either psychological aberrations, which means that people are nuts when they see them, that's what they feed the public...but behind the scenes they are very concerned about the national security implications of UFOs that land at nuclear missile bases and can't be caught, things of that nature. So the government from what I've read is very concerned about the phenomena and doesn't really understand it. The government on the other hand has outright lied concerning what information it does have...the CIA for example says it doesn't collect any information on UFOs...well that's just patently not true. We have documents from the CIA, a lot of it is blacked out, which mentions UFO studies by the CIA, UFO research, CIA-UFO experts, agency personnel who are monitoring the phenomenon, so they have lied to us all along. I didn't expect to get any confirmation regarding what Lazar has to say, but had to give it a try anyway. CHUCK HARDER Before we went to the half-hour break you said that when he looked inside one of these discs there were little furniture, give me some information... GEORGE KNAPP Well he feels that they were bringing him along, giving him a piece at a time. He would see a saucer one day, the next he would see the hanger doors open and see all nine of them...after that he got to see the inside of the thing. He also got to see a demonstration of it. He was told to stand back and watch this...and the thing lights up real bright...I guess the power that's produced is incredible, you need to produce your own gravitational field and it raised up, he wasn't sure who was flying it or was it remotely or what. He watched it raise up, did a couple of maneuvers and sat back down. Part of the reason he came forward, not to spill the secrets of the universe or the government, but because the research that's being done up there is being handled in a clumsy fashion. If they have had these for as long as forty years, which is what he believes, they haven't come to far in trying to understand them. Some of the discs he said he saw up there were being taken apart, kind of a reverse archaeology process to figure out how they worked. Some of the research going on up there is aimed at trying to duplicate the things that these machines can do using earth technologies and earth materials and he says it just can't be done. The key to the flying of the things is something he calls 'Element 115'...it does not exist on our periodic charts, he believes that wherever it came from its a naturally occurring element, he says we have 500 pounds of this stuff up there, just a little tiny sliver of it produces incredible amounts of power. Its the '115' that we will not be able to duplicate so he thinks...one of the reasons that he came forward is because scientists all over the world are working, putting their energy into trying to master the secrets of gravity and the secrets of anti-matter technology and here we've got it up there and they're not doing a very good job with it -- this little batch of scientists hidden out in the desert are trying to figure it out and not doing a very good job... CHUCK HARDER But this is kind of common with the United States government...I read a tremendous amount of material...I read a tremendous amount of material...I read five newspapers a day and I'll find where one group in one part of the country is working on a project and I'll get a clipping where another group is working on the same project, I've contacted them and they don't know of each other! GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, Yeah -- that's exactly right...he said the compartmentalization up there was very severe as well so that nobody had the full picture -- I guess so nobody could spill the beans as he has been trying to do. CHUCK HARDER Alright, what does he feel the public should know and what does he feel should be done? GEORGE KNAPP Well, he's not on a campaign, what he really wanted to do was to save his own life. He started having some problems when it became obvious to his employers that he was telling someone else about this. CHUCK HARDER We're talking about Bob Lazar now... GEORGE KNAPP Bob Lazar...his phone being tapped, people visiting him, calling him up with a single word message -- DEAD -- then they hang up! He tried to arrange meetings with his former supervisor and the meetings didn't come off, he says somebody took a shot at him on the freeway...obviously he realizes that if they really wanted to kill him, they could. Maybe perhaps they were just trying to shut him up. He feels that what is going on up there is a crime against the entire scientific community...not only the American people because we don't know what's going on and we haven't been told alien technology exists, but also against the scientific community. So, what else can I tell ya? CHUCK HARDER What does he say about the aliens? GEORGE KNAPP He's reluctant to talk about that, apparently he did see some aliens up there... CHUCK HARDER Excuse me, are you telling me there were live aliens? GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, he's kind of sketchy on the details of that, and I don't think I should go much further on that...part of the discussion until I can talk to him, but he has indications that there are aliens up there, at least one... CHUCK HARDER Live? GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, it's pretty wild, I know and I didn't include that in our reports because I couldn't confirm any thing of that nature, I couldn't find anyone else who had seen them up there so... CHUCK HARDER What did they look like? GEORGE KNAPP Your classic Grey...the little big-headed almond eyed-grey skinned being...the same ones in the classic descriptions of the UFO literature...he's kind of squeamish talking about it as well because it sounds so crazy... CHUCK HARDER I don't think it's crazy at all, there was an article, let me digress for a moment, there was an article yesterday on the front page of The Wall Street Journal where the FDA that stopped all of the grapes from Chile last March...apparently somebody laced two of the grapes with cyanide a couple of hours before the FDA, stumbled on them and it was an inside job apparently while the grapes were in the inspection station...and it was not done on the way, so somebody's lying there -- we're talking of two little grapes that almost bankrupted the country of Chile! If two little grapes...and such a story hits the front page of The Wall Street Journal about the questions about the truthfulness and what happened with the FDA, what about this...how would this ever get out if they would cover up a story about TWO LITTLE GRAPES?! GEORGE KNAPP Well, I tell you we asked the question, the obvious question, if this is true; how can the government keep this a secret all this time? A story this big -- the government leaks like a sieve on other things, how could the coverup exist? CHUCK HARDER Oh, I'll tell you... GEORGE KNAPP To which Lazar responds, this is the easiest...and he asked the question to his superiors up there, it's the easiest thing in the world to keep a secret because if it does come out, little bits and pieces, who's going to believe it? CHUCK HARDER Exactly...let me, you remember the Condon Report, do you not? GEORGE KNAPP Yes... CHUCK HARDER For those who are listening, I got into this investigation because I kept getting letters from our listeners who said, Chuck you ought to investigate this...we've investigated many things in the past such as the GM Diesel coverup, we're working on a pay phone coverup, we've done things with Ralph Nader...and so on. So we started buying the books and contacting UFO organizations. I then found that there was a guy named Phil Klass who was always there...somehow he as always there and he said that everything was bunk! And of course, he works for the Aviation Week magazine which is of course is the mouthpiece for the Military/Industrial complex and they certainly wouldn't want this technology to be out! I was also amazed when I saw the stealth bomber (tests) live on CNN one Saturday and a small plane landed at the same place, (runway) do you remember that...? GEORGE KNAPP Yes... CHUCK HARDER My question is: If the Stealth Bomber was so super-secret, how could a man and his children land their little tiny plane on the same runway at a super-secret airforce base? How could he have pierced the radar and fighter jets and so forth? My feeling was, probably the Stealth Bomber was obsolete and nobody was watching! GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, because the security up there...the only thing that comes out of that place is what they want out of it. CHUCK HARDER So what your talking about then, since the Condon Committee, Phil Klass and all the of the spokespeople who are supposed to know everything, what your saying is the ridicule factor...if Billy Bob sees a flying saucer and even has a photo of it and takes it to the paper, everybody laughs at him! GEORGE KNAPP There are actual documents the government has released (Under Freedom of Information Act) that show it has an active program that started back in the fifties...the CIA even used the term DEBUNKING, there were discussions about using Walt Disney to produce cartoons that made fun of people who had seen flying saucers...they were going to bring Arthur Godfrey in as their spokesperson. Phil Klass as you mentioned, he's explained away UFO sightings seen by thousands of people as the constellation ORION, when you can only see ORION from the other side of the planet. CHUCK HARDER Uh huh... GEORGE KNAPP He uses things like Ball Lightning, plasma balls to explain the sightings where plasma balls only last for a few seconds and the examples that he is trying to explain occur in cloudless skies where there is no lightning around. You mention the Condon report, that's a perfect example of the kinds of things that the government has done in the past, they commission a study, it's supposed to be THE STUDY, but the guy they hire to run the thing, Edward Condon had before he even started, that there was nothing to UFOs, the government should get out of it, and he also said at one point that the authors of UFO books should be HORSEWHIPPED! One of the explanations that came from the Condon Committee witnessed by several people, they described it as, a natural phenomena so rare that it has never been seen before or since! I don't think this kind of a thing is an accident! CHUCK HARDER Ok, the Soviet Union and Tass gave their report (of a UFO) and from what I have heard there are different kinds of aliens, some have been coming here for years and years and it's nothing new... GEORGE KNAPP Right... CHUCK HARDER Why is it in some parts of the world (now) they report other types of humanoids and other types of vehicles...I happen to have beautiful photos of some, and as I told you off-the-air, we're going to be releasing them in our upcoming magazine if someone doesn't stick a dagger through my heart... GEORGE KNAPP You're talking about the Billy Meier case, if you want to touch on that, we also did some investigation on that... CHUCK HARDER Ok, go ahead. GEORGE KNAPP Billy Meier, I've always been intrigued by that, and wanted to check them out. Its been pretty much written-off by the UFO community but when we put questions to them about the case they can't explain exactly why so we traveled to Phoenix and talked to Lee Elders one of the lead investigators on the Billy Meier case and started going over the evidence. The photos had been analyzed by independent experts, the film footage and video had been analyzed, the metal sample had been confirmed as something we don't have -- technology of cold fusion was used to produce this metal, the landing sites, the strange circular patterns in the grass that are now only gaining attention in Britain and other countries, all of this stuff had never been pretty much discounted by the UFO community because Elders and Wendelle Stevens had gone outside of the UFO community to get confirmation. The UFO people were kept out of it, the Billy Meier case I think exemplifies the biggest weakness in UFOLOGY and that's the jealousy that permeates the field...everybody wants to be the only one with the real story of UFOs, so they kind of written this guy off only because he didn't cooperate with them. CHUCK HARDER We have been able to get some photos from a source who has some negatives that were just recently located...some from ten feet away, I used to be in the motion picture business. If they are models they cost thousands of dollars and I doubt if a simple Swiss farmer could have done it... GEORGE KNAPP I'd agree with ya, the reason we got interested in Billy Meier, it goes back to Lazar, was because Bob Lazar says, the saucer that he saw fly, he dubbed it the sport model, was the same saucer in the Meier photos, exactly the same. CHUCK HARDER The new ones or the old ones? GEORGE KNAPP The new one. CHUCK HARDER Ok, that's the one we've got. GEORGE KNAPP Going back to the things he saw (Lazar) at S-4, he saw the nine saucers, he said all nine of them were different, like we got the variety pack, but the one he saw fly was like the one in the Meier photo. (There are Three types photographed by Billy Meier.) That's why we decided to check out the Meier part of the (UFO) story. >>>>At this point Chuck Harder tells George Knapp that there is a break coming up and after the break would he please tell Mr. and Mrs. America what they should do to get the truth.<<<< CHUCK HARDER I hope that Mr. and Mrs. America make note of the name George Knapp and Bob Lazar so that if anything ever happens to them, you know why. GEORGE KNAPP Someone should tell us what's going on...TV and movies have conditioned us...we won't panic...Jimmy Carter when he ran for President promised that if he was elected that he vowed to open all the UFO files and he didn't -- we wrote to him asking why and he didn't respond. We want the government to come clean. If that takes a Congressional Investigation...that's something that should be looked at. If it is launched we have to make sure that there are no CIA, contractors and the like involved otherwise people aren't going to believe it. We've seen enough of this whitewash stuff over the years. If there's nothing to the story, then open up the files and prove it to us! CHUCK HARDER OK, have the government let the press into these areas and don't first clean them out... ================================================================= -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![roman.andruszko@canrem.com] From: "roman andruszko" <roman.andruszko@canrem.com> Subject: abductions ??? Message-ID: <1992Dec21.4962.12289@dosgate> Reply-To: "roman andruszko" <roman.andruszko@canrem.com> Organization: Canada Remote Systems Distribution: alt Date: 21 Dec 92 20:31:01 EST Lines: 19 I've been reading some few books detailing abductions and the removal of fetus and sperm from various people. It's understood that this has been going on for some time now and we're still in the dark to most of it. With all the unborn babies taken and sperm collected, these aliens have enough resources to build an army. My question is to what purpose ? Why take ? Why not ask ? Any one have some answer, I'd like to hear them. TTYL ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜─╢ Roman Andruszko ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜█▓∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ ∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜∩┐╜ --- ∩┐╜ DeLuxe∩┐╜/386 1.25 #7079 ∩┐╜ I've seen the truth... It doesn't make sense ??? -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!author.ecn.purdue.edu!unglenie From: unglenie@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) Subject: Re: QUESTION: This Group Message-ID: <1992Dec22.023237.18349@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <athos-161292103310@kip2-42.apple.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:32:37 GMT Lines: 16 Rick Eames writes: >I was under the impression that this group existed to discuss UFO's. I >have never understood why people who don't particularly find UFO's a >reality feel it necessary to crash in and clutter up the group with their >drivel. It's annoying and it detracts from the real reason this group >exists: to SERIOUSLY discuss UFO's. But would you exclude people who do NOT believe in other-worldly critters but CAN seriously discuss the alleged UFO's? Rob U -- - Rob Unglenieks REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES - - "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no - - native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] - - (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton. Will Engineer For Food) - Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13315 alt.alien.visitors:12072 alt.religion.kibology:5457 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <Bzn4CA.EL7@world.std.com> Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <72030@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:00:10 GMT Lines: 9 In article <72030@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: Kibo is truely a master of what he does and I haven't >figured out what that is yet. I'm a master of being unable to figure out. -- K. (Merry X_-_Mas, John!) Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36124 sci.astro:24418 sci.space:39487 alt.alien.visitors:12073 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!uchinews!ellis!thf2 From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.astro,sci.space,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: STS-48 and "SDI": Oberg vs. Hoagland Message-ID: <1992Dec21.202206.5516@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: 21 Dec 92 20:22:06 GMT References: <1992Dec2.061212.8716@netcom.com> <1992Dec4.215702.5218@news.cs.brandeis.edu> Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System) Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations Lines: 22 In article <1992Dec4.215702.5218@news.cs.brandeis.edu> corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes: >James Oberg will _of course_ have an explanation. He is a member of >PSICOP and works with Philip Klass, THE well-known skeptic "nothing- >is-real" other famous member of PSICOP. I've been seeing more and >more things from Oberg lately, and I *never* see this connection >mentioned, only his NASA ties. > >Robert Sheaffer may be "Skepticus Maximus", but for the rest of us >with open minds, please consider the source. > >Barb You seem to be so open-minded that you didn't address a single thing Oberg said. He had a remarkably good track record on the Soviet space program. At any rate, it's posts like this that make me want to disassociate myself from my alma mater. Sheesh. -- ted frank | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu standard disclaimers | void where prohibited the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13316 alt.alien.visitors:12074 sci.skeptic:36125 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Mysterious Letter. Message-ID: <72159@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 20:13:49 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 7 Standby Folks, I just got some information about the letter talking about the asteroids that will fall. It seems that the person sending the letter operates a cattle growing company down in that country and my friend owns some stock in the stock growing company. That's why he referred to my friend as being a shareholder. I'll keep you posted on further developements. Stay tuned. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13317 alt.alien.visitors:12075 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <72162@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 20:22:41 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear People: I agree with you that FAR OUT is just about the worst magazine ever printed, and I do occasionally answer E-mail sent to me when I feel the person is sincere. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13318 alt.alien.visitors:12076 alt.religion.kibology:5461 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <72166@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 20:30:56 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: All I have to say is you people had better quite telling the truth or your gonna get in trouble. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13319 alt.alien.visitors:12077 alt.religion.kibology:5462 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!newshost.wcc.govt.nz!kosmos.wcc.govt.nz!quirke_a Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <1992Dec22.174449.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> From: quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Date: 22 Dec 92 17:44:49 NZST References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <72030@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access. NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Lines: 10 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Kibo is truely a master of what he does and I haven't figured out what that > is yet. Kibo is the best at what he does, but what he does isn't very pretty. He also has a really nifty hairdo, hangs out with a lot of wierd people, and keeps cutlery in a very surprising location. Or am I thinking of someone else ? 8-) Tony Q. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!bhamcs!percy!pxf From: pxf@cs.bham.ac.uk (Pranath Fernando) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Are they on alt.alien.visitors ?? Message-ID: <1992Dec22.121738@cs.bham.ac.uk> Date: 22 Dec 92 12:17:38 GMT Sender: news@cs.bham.ac.uk Organization: University of Birmingham Lines: 39 Nntp-Posting-Host: hobbits Just a little proposition, and perhaps a lttle healthy paranoia ..... IF (and of course only if) aliens are already here, And if some of them are impersonating humans, perhaps in areas of intrest such as high tech research, etc.... perhaps they even have access to e-mail, and news.. perhaps they discover the newsgroup alt.alien.visitors...and think 'ooh lets have a look'. Perhaps some of them may even send a message or two ? I've broken my silence ! It's about time.... Well if i suddenly don't send any messages... you know John Winston has sent the 'Men in Black' round to sort me out ! (Sorry John ! - just a little joke, I think your stuff is ace, honest !). But seriously..... Just believe me ...... (if there's any humans reading this - that is) we are not alone in this universe , we are being watched, right now, and there's very little we can do...except wait. Though, awareness is'nt bad is it ? (Perhaps it is.....) Well it's too late this is sent now..... damn the consequences ! (Believe me it's not the flames I'm thinking of !) Anyway i'm probably too insignificant to bother 'dealing with ' ! (I am, honest !). from, Pierre --x--- (The name I go by - don't ask why, it'll take AGES !) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!pacbell.com!hoptoad!chroma From: chroma@hoptoad.uucp (Steve in the Secret Labs) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Contact Notes Message-ID: <30158@hoptoad.uucp> Date: 22 Dec 92 12:42:45 GMT References: <1992Dec8.041749.22094@netcom.com> <1992Dec14.175639.2141@megatek.com> <1992Dec14.200454.9746@netcom.com> <1992Dec20.193916.27667@eskimo.com> Reply-To: chroma@hoptoad.UUCP (Steve in the Secret Labs) Organization: Skyline Genetic Engineering Lines: 55 In article <1992Dec20.193916.27667@eskimo.com> nanook@eskimo.com (Robert Dinse) writes: >In article <1992Dec14.200454.9746@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: > >> It is highly likely that most ET visitors are here for our benefit. > > Jeff, do you mind if I ask on what do you base that assertion? > > The few people I've been able to communicate with have not come away from >their experiences with that interpretation. > > If you look at human history, for example what happened when Europeans >first came to the Americas and started interacting with the natives here, it >is evident that whenever a technologically more advanced civilization here >has encountered a less advanced civilization, it was not for the less advanced >civilizations benefit. > > Even when the intent was to benefit the less advanced civilization, i.e., >the missionaries that sought to save their souls by converting them to their >religious beliefs, destruction still resulted. > > I would like to know otherwise, that is to say that you are right, but so >far I have not been able to talk to anyone who has had a positive first hand >experience. (If there is someone out there that has, I would like to hear >from you). It is hard to say this without sounding snarly and arrogant...BUT if there are aliens here then the result would most likely be bewilderment. It seems rather doubtful that it would be as simple "they are here for our good" or the other assumption "they are here to harm us" or even "they have good intentions but it will all go awry." Most likely the result of initial encounter and probably be mainly confusion. I suspect that it would take a long time even some meaningul dialogue could take place. Much less anything that would come close to colonization or something like that. Despite the guilt trip we sort of have over the deeds and/or misdeeds of Christoper Columbus. it is doubtful that contact will happen anything like that. Now it is curious that this is exactly what seems to be happening, but the "plain old" human mind can produce things that are pretty bewildering and strange, no aliens required, but is hard to get phantasms to leave physical evidence as seems to be the case with many UFO sightings. But there could be other explanations of all this stuff tto, somehow I doubt that life in other parts of the universe is arranged around Star Trek principles. How to even communicate with it will be an interesting task. It is an open question whether even matematical principles are good enuff to communicate with putative alien intelligences. Such attempted artificial languages such as LINCOS seem to be steps in the right direction, even if they are still priative and very culture bound. Even the question of how one would communicate with an alien culture is a very difficult and intersting question. Be Seeing You, Steve reply:chroma@toad.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13323 alt.alien.visitors:12080 sci.skeptic:36135 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <72188@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 06:35:15 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 13 Subject: I'll Fly Away. If you should go to merry ole England and think you see a UFO it might not be a space craft from another planet or dimension but might be an IFB (Identified Flying Baby). Yes sir they now have a regular, garden variety, A1, E1, Cherub. That of course all of you know is a fat little baby with wing who can fly. This is the first one to be born for about 2,000 years but they expect many more to be born soon. The little person's name is Flying Bobby Martin, and he lives around Surrey, England and is the son of Thomas and Brenda Martin. John Winston. Source of material: December 29, 1992-SUN-3. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13324 sci.skeptic:36136 alt.alien.visitors:12081 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Tunnels #1. Message-ID: <72189@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 06:44:04 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <71720@cup.portal.com> <F9B4VB2w165w@stycx.hacktic.nl> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: Some suggested that we drive into the tunnel. That might prove interesting. It's not number one on my priority list though. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Are they on alt.alien.visitors ?? Message-ID: <1992Dec22.145627.2613@dct.ac.uk> Date: 22 Dec 92 14:56:27 GMT References: <1992Dec22.121738@cs.bham.ac.uk> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 30 In article <1992Dec22.121738@cs.bham.ac.uk>, pxf@cs.bham.ac.uk (Pranath Fernando) writes: > Just believe me ...... (if there's any humans reading this - that is) we are not > alone in this universe , we are being watched, right now, and there's very little > we can do...except wait. Actually most of the alien species in the galaxy don't talk to each other. They all, of course, have their undercover agents on the planet and have done for tens of thousands of years. The only trouble is that almost all of the native population has died off. Most of the aliens don't realise this and carry on impersonating what they consider to be human insanity. The result? Life just gets crazier and crazier. So the question is not "Are there aliens amongst us?" but "Are there any earthlings amongst us?" The funniest case is the "skeptics". These aliens really believe in the Star Trek prime directive and so attempt to ridicule any evidence of extra-terrestrial activity but the people they call fruit-cakes are actually an opposing group who wish that humans such as skeptics weren't so stupid as to miss the bleeding obvious. How to solve this problem without interfering in the development of all the races on this planet has perplexed many an intergalactic psychiatrist... :=) -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Int: +44 382 308810 -- There is only one true conspiracy -- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!buffalo From: buffalo@wam.umd.edu (Duncan D. Sterling) Subject: Serious Processing and Handling of AAV Info Message-ID: <1992Dec22.171452.27303@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:14:52 GMT Lines: 18 A question for all the serious posters on AAV-- is there an information "clearinghouse" for all the stuff I've seen posted here? If not, it seems to me that everyone here (as well as others elsewhere) who are strongly interested in this topic might benefit from such a set up. A serious, practical, and scientific approach in gathering, condensing, and archiving materials of interest could only help further serious research (IMHO) Questions, opinion, comments, proposals and flames welcomed and encouraged. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duncan Sterling buffalo@wam.umd.edu GT750L, KH500A8, CA175K3 University of Maryland "Yeeehaaa!" - Slim Pickens in "Dr. Strangelove" College Park, Md. "2 strokes are quicker than 4" - anonymous Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13327 alt.alien.visitors:12084 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!hardy.u.washington.edu!pul From: pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) Subject: Re: Bashar. Message-ID: <1992Dec22.181953.1238@u.washington.edu> Summary: Blueprint for Change Keywords: Bashar Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <71937@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:19:53 GMT Lines: 53 In article <71937@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Bashar. >I told you before I would look up some information and get back to you. Here >is the information. It is a person on earth asking a space person by the >name of Bashar a question. > "Bashar, are we going to blow ourselves up?" >"No!! Your civilization has already decided on a collective subconscious level >not to do so. You all chose to be here in this transformational age to see >that you do NOT replay Atlantis and destroy yoursolves and your world this >time around. > Around the year 1997 a spark will be ignited to your Middle East.. >There will be a complete transformation in that entire area.. > By your year 2027 your world will be absolutely interwoven into the Galactic >Association of worlds-as an equal member. > We have no need for you to believe us. We are here to assist you in believing >in yourselves. > The only time you have struggle and pain is when you are trying to be someone >you are not, fighting your natural flow. > When you remove guilt from your tool box, you will realize that nothing is >too good or too simple to be true: nothing is too wondrous or too ecstatic >to be yours. > You deserve all you can conceive of.. >John Winston. Thanks for posting this John! See gang, even though our Mr. Winston may often post things that seem a little off the wall, he does come up with some good information here and there, and ever since my "shooting star" incident, I have learned to at least temporarily suspend my initial judgements over even those things I consider outrageous. Remember, a little understanding, a realization that others are unique and see things differently from ourself, will go a long way toward making our own lives happier, keeping the net clean, and yes, even making the world a more harmonious and peaceful place! :) Anyway, that above excerpt from Bashar was taken from the book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change - A message from our future". Bashar is a pretty well known extraterrestrial trance channeled through Darryl Anka. He and Luana Ewing wrote the above book. They live in the good old Pacific Northwest like myself, and I bought (of course an autographed copy of) the book on Sunday from Luana herself. Picked up some of Bashar's tapes too. Wonderful material. Great tools for creating your own reality, releasing fear, and attuning with our extraterrestrial siblings! Anyway, I said this once before, but I'll do it again: I've posted four excerpts from this book to the net in past months. I'll e-mail them to anyone who's interested in seeing them. -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen - pul@hardy.u.washington.edu. | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Check this out... Message-ID: <1992Dec22.172619.27379@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:26:19 GMT Lines: 20 Well, I suggested a few postings back that maybe our buddy JW was a spook, and guess what happened.... I was e-mailed by a man from the US Army Research Labs, who has never to my knowledge posted in this group, wanting to know *why* it was I thought JW was on the take! Pretty fishy huh? Well, whether JW *is* on the take or not is irrelevant. The effect is the same. I suggested in my last post that people learn to use the kill file and force themselves to ignore JW. I will reiterate this recommendation: Put JW in your kill file and be done with it. I *never* read any of his posts any more, and when I accidentally begin to read one which is a *reply* to one of his, I chuck it in a nanosecond. I encourage *all* of you to follow suit and leave this JW in the dust... Cheers! -Max Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!palan!tct!mechanic!James.Porter From: James.Porter@mechanic.fidonet.org (James Porter) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Question! Message-ID: <310.2B374D90@mechanic.fidonet.org> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 00:16:02 PDT Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida Lines: 14 Can anyone in USENET land see this post? I am doubting my postings are making it through my local gateway. Any comments back indicating that you have seen this would be much appreciated. James Porter ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X We all live in a yellow subroutine. -- Internet: James.Porter@mechanic.fidonet.org UUCP: ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!James.Porter Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet. For information write to chief@mechanic.fidonet.org Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: On ET Abductions and Cattle Mutilations Keywords: cias, mj12, bush, rockefeller, bolsheviks vs russians Message-ID: <8755.31406@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 22 Dec 92 21:06:27 GMT Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Distribution: usa Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA Lines: 1179 The following files are: Vicki Cooper on the Hudson Valley sightings; Linda Moulton Howe on cattle mutilations; and a review on ... and with a reply from Jacques Vallee on ET-human abduction cases. This file is very long.....I recommend you download prior to reading if you're paying the tab yourself. Len ============================================================ I found this on the ParaNet UFO echo a short while back and thought it would be interesting to post to the Net. ------Begin Included Text ---------------------------------- Message #5558 - ASK_UFO Date : 21-Apr-91 0:03 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : Incident at Indian Point This file was provided to the ParaNet<sm> Information Service by UFO Magazine. All rights are reserved. You may distribute this file freely as long as this header remains intact. Date prepared: 4/20/91 Contributed by: Staff UFO Magazine ================================================================= Incident at Indian Point by Vicki Cooper The threat of UFOs compromising reactor security, as if the nuclear industry didn't have enough to deal with already, became a very real concern in 1984. Although of- ficials won't admit it, several researchers have information That New York 's Indian Point Reactor complex endured such a UFO problem during the long siege of sightings that happened throughout the state's Hudson Valley area. The portrayal of the event in this article is based primarily on the disclosures of unnamed sources. The summer of 1984 was a troublesome season for authorities at the Indian Point nuclear reactor complex in Buchanan, New York. Two UFO appearances, one of which was verified by Carl Patrick, director of nuclear information for the New York Power Authority (NYPA), and later documented by the press and the 1987 book Night Siege, apparently put the normally tight security of the plant to a severe test. The first event entailed the brief flyover of a huge craft, witnessed by three security policemen on June 14. That was followed ten days later by a UFO incident of unprecedented impact. It was one of hundreds of UFO sightings in the Hudson Valley, but one the nuclear workers won't soon forget. "Here comes that UFO again! " an Indian Point security guard is said to have yelled on the night of July 24, 1984, alerting other security personnel by way of the plant's internal communications system. A UFO, variously described as looking like "an ice cream cone " and "boomerang, " had lazily drifted over to Reactor #3-the only active reactor at the time-lingering about 300 feet above the domed construction for some ten minutes, sending security officials into an uproar. Now, six years later, the principal UFO researcher on the case admits that many aspects of the event remain confusing and undisclosed. And although he's still receiving information, Philip Imbrogno calls his own lengthy investigation "stagnant." "Every time new information comes up or I get a lead on something, I get very reluctant to deal with it again," said Imbrogno, who heads the science department at the Windward School in White Plains, New York. "The entire case has caused me quite a bit of pressure . . . The event would indicate that whatever appeared over there, our state-of-the-art technology in defense was unable to deal with it. " He suggests that from what his sources have said, a military aspect came into play. The Indian Point UFO represented an intolerable security breach. Military customers? Imbrogno says that it is precisely that aspect which has had a lasting effect, and which has generated repercussions that continue to this day. But according to the New York Power Authority, which oversees the reactor complex, Indian Point itself has no direct military customers. Reactor #3 primarily services local and state facilities in New York City and Westchester County, including local school districts, the New York City subway systems and some of New York's trains. Most importantly, in Imbrogno's mind, are several military installations in and around Duchess County, which allegedly get their power from Indian Point. According to his sources, these are primarily satellite receiving stations, and "a number of other military operations of which we can only guess, " Imbrogno says. The official agency overseeing the reactor complex is the New York Power Authority, although Consolidated Edison has jurisdiction over Reactor #2 and is sold use of #3 for extensive transmissions to New York residential users and, perhaps, military facilities such as Camp Smith, an Air National Guard base located north of Peekskill. (Reactor #l is inactive.) It was NYPA whose officials apparently spent considerable human energy trying to dissuade Imbrogno from writing about the July 24 event, concerned he would release information vital to the plant's security. "I think other agencies were using (the NYPA) to harass me, " he said, noting that he was constantly subjected to their repetitive phone calls, threatening that he would be forced to appear at a hearing on the incident. (He was never subpoenaed, but Imbrogno subsequently, and perhaps coincidentally, was audited by the IRS four times.) The compulsion to publish was undeniable; of what may have been as many as 70 UFO witnesses among Indian Point personnel, a number quietly sought out Imbrogno, and on the condition of anonymity provided him with the vital facts which led to the production of Night Siege (co-written with Bob Pratt and J. Allen Hynek.) "My sources involve people who work in security for the plant and also people in secretarial and janitorial positions," he said. Cont. with next message --- ZMailQ 1.10 @9:1012/3.0 * Origin: ParaNet Alpha Delta <sm> The Data Base (9:1012/3) Message #5559 - ASK_UFO Date : 21-Apr-91 0:04 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : Incident Pt. II This file was provided to the ParaNet<sm> Information Service by UFO Magazine. All rights are reserved. You may distribute this file freely as long as this header remains intact. Date prepared: 4/20/91 Contributed by: Staff UFO Magazine ================================================================= Incident at Indian Point Part II by Vicki Cooper "The only problem is that getting anything on paper- documentation, something official-is very, very hard, I have unofficial confirmation right now that a number of documents pertaining to the sighting do exist at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. " Normally, NRC records can be opened to the public under terms of the Freedom of Information Act, but when he in- quired, Imbrogno was informed that the documents were being held at the reactor complex, and as such were protected under national security regulations. "It's a joint sort of thing, " he said, "In other words, although the NRC is pretty open to the public, if they want to keep a document classified, they'll store it with another agency. I have an inside secretarial source who's actually seen the documents filed." The NYPA's Patrick denies that any such documentation exists, and dismisses the incident by claiming that all Hudson Valley UFO sightings were later identified as light aircraft, There was no videotape taken by on-site surveillance cameras, Patrick insists, or audio recording of oral communications, both pieces of evidence which Imbrogno strongly feels do exist and are being retained somewhere. According to Imbrogno's sources, a security shake-up ensued the very next day. "A number of agencies came in, including the NRC and military personnel, and they supposedly cleaned out everything. You have to remember that with nuclear reactors, you're only going to get 10 percent of the real story. They're overly terrified of bad publicity, and are really afraid of the anti-nuclear groups, which can cause trouble. Anything that happens is immediately covered up, including UFO sightings. " An 'irregularity' Imbrogno further alleges that shortly after the UFO infringement, a crack in the reactor's casing was discovered. The public didn't hear about such a situation until a year later; the NYPA's Patrick denied any "crack, " although he did recall a time when Reactor #2 may have developed an "irregularity. " Imbrogno says, "[Indian Point officials] made a public statement that operations were not affected, that everything was normal. But I've been told by several people that they lost power, the security system dropped, and the reactor controls went crazy. Apparently it was caused by the UFO." No way, says the NYPA. "Any implication that the sightings of these [light aircraft] in any way affected Reactor #3 is false", Patrick said. Imbrogno's sources indicate otherwise. Supposedly, a mass of sophisticated, high-accuracy tracking equipment was installed at the complex, enabling security to quickly generate a computer image of whatever aircraft might be affecting the equipment. Apparently such problems are still going on. Patrick would not comment on what kinds of security equipment protect Indian Point, but stressed that nothing new has been installed since the incident. Imbrogno is also suspicious that the armed security forces at the site may have had reason to attempt firing on the craft, again an allegation flatly refuted by the NYPA. "I know a number of helicopters with rocket launchers were sent up and followed the craft for some distance," Imbrogno commented, citing his anonymous sources for the info. "When these helicopters went on their way, the object moved off and started crossing the Hudson, and disappeared up north." Officials will not talk to Imbrogno, nor answer his letters, he says. UFO spoke with Cliff Spieler, vice president at the New York Power Authority. He, like Patrick, basically dismisses the entire affair. "Having looked into this thing and living two miles from Indian Point, think the UFO reports are nonsense, " he said. "[All Hudson Valley UFO sightings] are linked to small planes flying out of Duchess County." At one time, officials speaking for Indian Point made their position quite clear to Imbrogno, "They said, 'you can cooperate with us, or you don't have to cooperate with us. If you don't cooperate with us, you have to face the consequences, because you are dealing in an area of national security. The incident that took place over there involved national security because it was a breach of security at a nuclear reactor.' But they weren't ready to say who was breaching security!" In considering the "who," Imbrogno took in a number of hypotheses, including the possibility that the incident was an elaborate test flight of a secret military craft, such as the B-2 Stealth bomber, or a covertly-planned contingency test of the plant's security operations, carried out under the guise of a UFO overflight. Nothing is impossible, he'll admit. But the most tenable answer, he feels, is that the UFO was an extraterrestrial craft. "I don't think our government could be so bold with a craft of the kind that appeared at Indian Point," he said. "Talking to these security people, and looking into their eyes," his voice trailed, " . . . they tell a story of this one cop who got up on the roof below the UFO, and the thing started moving a little bit. He pulled out his gun, looked at it, then put the gun back in his holster and ducked! . . . The people who were telling these stories are not familiar with the UFO literature. If I really wanted to go into this, with no fear of what would happen to me, I'm sure there's an incredible story here. I am still being given information about certain things going on there-In the nighttime, people seeing little creatures coming through the walls of the casing on the reactor, and military personnel indicating 'we're aware of these creatures and we don't care if they're from outer space-shoot 'em!' . . . On a newscast on Channel 7 in New York, they were interviewing one guy, and he said, 'I saw it going over the reactor! I think they're sucking the power from it! That's what they're doing!' But a civilization that has this type of vehicle- any intelligence, whatever it is-I'm sure doesn't need nuclear energy." Ed. Note: In a letter to UFO shortly after this article was written, Imbrogno added to his remarks. "It is hard to believe that people like John Lear and Bill Cooper are revealing 'top secret' information with little or no repercussions. I just poked my nose a little too deep into an area of national security and got my ears pinned back for it. My next step is to approach this in a legal way by asking for an investigation (preferably by a member of Congress) to find out how and why the security at this government reactor was violated and why information is being withheld." End of file. --- ZMailQ 1.10 @9:1012/3.0 * Origin: ParaNet Alpha Delta <sm> The Data Base (9:1012/3) Message #5560 - ASK_UFO Date : 21-Apr-91 0:45 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : Incident Indian Point As an addendum to the previous file "Incident at Indian Point", this was taken from UFO Magazine, Vol. 5 No. 3, ATOMIC PERSPECTIVES. Thank you. Don -* Origin: ParaNet Alpha Delta <sm> The Data Base (9:1012/3) --EOF-- -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the rest of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :^) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Grudge|TLC|CFR|FED|EEC|Bush > WAR = "New World Order"